Astute grounding under investigation

HAVE YOUR SAY

25 October 2010

Please do not make ill informed comment on this issue before any investigation has been held. I served with Andy Coles twice during my time in the Royal Navy and he was a first rate and highly competent officer. This is an unfortunate incident in which no one died, no one was injured, no environmental damage occurred, do not treat it as something else.

Pat Bradgate - ex Chief Petty Officer (Sonar) Submarines.
Pat Bradgate - Barrow-in-Furness

25 October 2010

I think she returned to Faslane around 13:00 on Monday 25th not 24th

S. Floyd - Helensburgh

25 October 2010

This incident is almost beyond belief.
As many of the functions in this boat are inter-connected I have no compunction in recommending that all officers are fired and jailed.
Astute....my arse !
Bob
Bob Walker - Thunder Bay,Canada

25 October 2010

Pat Bradgate,
Pat, he may as you say be a 'first rate and highly competent officer' but if found guilty of endangering his boat this will not make one bit of difference to the outcome.
You as an ex chief should know better than anyone that in cases like this the RN are ruthless.
How many succesfull careers have been ended by one error of judgment.
Even if it was a his navs error he is still going to be held responsible,sorry but I wouldn't put money on any future promotion prospects.
michael - notts

25 October 2010

First the news articles said she was on the rocks....later she was stuck on sand......that makes a big difference on the damage that may have been done by any type of grounding....Outdated charts should have NOT been on the sub to start out with. In shallow waters or restricted she should have been using a fathometer and her forward down looking sonar.
Pearl Harbor is very shallow and subs come in and go out on the surface, once beyond PAPA HOTEL, the waters very deep and safe for under water navigation. I assume the waters around the Isle of Skye are dangerous to navigate.
Glad no one was injured on ASTUTE.
Bob Melley - Sarasota, FL, USA old USNer

25 October 2010

It is not uncommon for vessels to run aground, even with advanced mapping systems. With shifting sands, old maps, add human error and accidents will happen.

Obviously having fewer vessels means the media will always beat up such occurrences.

Give em a break!

SHAUN - EX-RNZN

26 October 2010

Shaun,
Sorry but it all depends on what you class as uncommon.
As far as I am aware the last RN ship to go aground was HMS Nottingham off Australia in 2002.
Contrary to what you say,with advanced mapping systems this should never have happened. It suggests that whatever system you use it is only as good as the latest info you have on it.
I know that in my days (yes I'm showing my age) the navigators yeoman was constantly bombarded with chart corrections that kept him very busy physicaly updating all charts held onboard.
One would assume they have just as good a system for computerised charts,but if no surveys have recently been carried out in the area then that negates all your wonderfull modern systems.
In this particular area they should have been more vigilant than ever,sorry but 'Give em a break' just doesn't cut it when you are navigating a £1bn nuclear boat.
michael - notts

26 October 2010

Michael,

I have been on the bridge of frigates many times also, and I also remember 'drogs' (or similar) yelling out depth readings from echo sounders, while a NO wannabe corrects the paper chart.

So I know what you mean.

The difference with the T42 in 2002 was that was a known fixed navigation hazard, while apparently the sandbar Astute hit was a shifting sandbar. I agree diligence on the crews part is required in these areas, but as events have shown, humans make mistakes (and in fact the computers will too, since they are programmed by us!).
while a NO wannabe corrects the paper chart. I have also been on the bridge when a previously uncharted seabed rise appears out of nowhere.

Without knowing the full details, like speed, course and
Shaun - EX-RNZN

27 October 2010

Navigational bouys are there for a reason. KEEP INSIDE THEM.
I hope he doesn't have to take Astute into Pompey !!!!!!!!!
Peter cook - Ex F.A.A. & Yacht delivery