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MoD defends shooting pigs to train surgeons
19 November 2012Training exercises in which live pigs are drugged, shot and operated on in a simulated emergency situation provide "invaluable experience" for surgeons and are saving the lives of military personnel on operations, the Ministry of Defence has said.
The MoD sends surgeons to the Definitive Surgical and Trauma Care (DSTC) course at NATO's Jaegerspris training area outside Copenhagen, Denmark, twice a year, with the latest course taking place earlier this month.
Pigs are drugged and shot in specific areas of the body to allow medics and surgeons to practice emergency surgery and techniques such as stemming the flow of blood from major organs.
Eighteen pigs were used in the latest exercise earlier this month, and all are destroyed after the exercises.
DSTC course director Jens Hillingsoe told The Daily Mail that the use of live animals was essential in the training of battlefield surgeons.
"Using a pig makes the situation in the operating theatre more realistic because of the anatomical similarities between pigs and humans," he said.
Animal rights groups have claimed that lifelike human dolls which simulate bleeding and breathing are a realistic and more humane alternative.
"The practice of shooting and injuring pigs for army surgeons to practice their skills on is abhorrent and shocking," said RSPCA spokeswoman Klare Kennett.
"Pigs are intelligent animals and most people would be appalled by this, especially as there is an alternative available which does not involve harming any animals."
Mimi Bekhechi, associate director for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (Peta) UK, said: "The Ministry of Defence's decision to ship out members of the armed forces for deadly and cruel exercises in Denmark - which would be illegal if conducted in the UK - is impossible to justify medically, ethically and educationally."
An MoD spokesperson said that the training would not be illegal, but would require Home Office approval on a case-by-case basis if it were to take place in the UK.
"This training provides invaluable experience, exposing our surgical teams to the specific challenges posed by the injuries of modern armed conflict," the spokesperson said.
"This training has helped save lives on operations and by participating in the Danish exercises we minimise the overall number of animals used."
HAVE YOUR SAY
19 November 2012
Anyone who has worked with Pigs will no they truly are a very intelligent creature.
They truly do have a most interesting manner, indeed I used to have t one that would sit in and watch TV with me.... (Sad I know)
So to see this, I really struggled. I understand the reasons why, but I am not comfortable, with the apparent need.
Surely models, NHS exposure and other facilities must be able to provide suitable training.
We need to stay calm on this, as it is being done "for a good reason", but it really would not harm anyone if we could talk objectively about finding (or not) an alternative. If not then the animals welfare does deserve real discussion, they really do have emotions. (I know, now you will consider me "a tree hugging Pig loving CND supporter.... "
I have lost any credibility in many eyes I am sure.......
:-)
Degradable - UK
19 November 2012
Difficult ethical question. A lot of us will believe that animal cruelty can never be excused. Those who have a relative in Afghanistan may well say "if it saves my son/husband/daughter/wife, then shoot the pig".
Graham - UK
19 November 2012
Graham
Indeed, and may I go a little of topic and wonder how much comment this topic will generate.
Sadly it is only about Pigs... But it is not. As you stated it is an ethical question, whcih should be discussed.
But I fear it would not get the same consideration as an article about Catapults on Carriers or the like...
Oh and to the editor. Any way to keep topics alive. Sometimes good debate is lost when the topics move from the "Home page"
Degradable - UK
19 November 2012
Must agree with Graham. If it means that human beings, be they injured in combat scenarios or closer to home stand a greater prospect of survival, then I'm afraid I must agree, shoot the pig.
Personally I'd sooner see convicted murderers replace the pigs but I'm probably in a minority of one on that score!
Hereman - Wirral, England
19 November 2012
Hereman
Are you willing to kill an innocent man. And are you willing to actually do the killing.
Both thoses questions need an answer prior to suggesting such actions.
It is only a matter of time before you killed a wrongly convicted person.
I am sure it would not sit well with the people doing the shooting, therefore those that suggested it should be the ones that do the shooting.
Degradable - UK
19 November 2012
Tim,
It's a good point and the technology currently doesn't allow it. I'm hoping a redesign in coming months will include a 'most commented' box on the front page.
JS - Editor - DefenceManagement.com
19 November 2012
@ Degradable - UK
It is only fair that I respond to your comment.
In answer to your question, as I pointed out I would likely be in a minority of one, having said that in the case of the coward who cold bloodedly murdered WPC's Fiona Bone and Nicola Hughes (also two other people, allegedly)where no doubt exists as to culpability and the law allowed capital punishment, then yes I believe I would be prepared to do it. Of course this is a totally hypothetical scenario and despite a large percentage of the population favouring capital punishment, it will never be reinstated and not just as you rightly say because innocent people have been executed in the past.
On the other hand, if we believe the (humane)sacrifice of some pigs, destined anyway to be slaughtered in the production of food is not justified, albeit in advancing medical procedures that may save human life, then my 'hypothetical alternative' though perhaps rather drastic was intended to put things in perspective.
Hereman - Wirral, England
19 November 2012
As an aspiring army doctor and a human I am completly for the practise on pigs. However in my mind certain conditions must be inplace e.g. as long as they are sedated so they don't feel any pain. As long as the surgeons gain from the experiane. I can honestly say that although a pig may be an inteligant creature I would put human life and quality of human life in front of a pigs. Our soilders truly are heros and desreve the best medical care the government, army and NHS can offer.
Given the choice of either a pig or a human dying you'd be lying if you said you'd rather the human died.
Olivia Hobden - Wiltishire
19 November 2012
A difficult situation for sure, without knoledge of how realistic the alternatives are I cannot form a full opinion.
However I will say this, the very fact that we do not run these kind of exercises in the UK suggests that it is very controversial and should not simply be hidden away abroad, it should instead be discussed and dealt with properly.
I for one can see the advantages of such practises however I still find it some what disturbing.
Also, Degradable - UK I would agree, I rate this website very highley and check it daily, I am also often disapointed when interesting and relevant debate is ended simply because it moves down the list of articles.
David Forster - Durham
19 November 2012
Shameful. An abhorrant abuse of intelligent creatures at the mercy of people who should know better. Now it's not just human lives that are being sacrificed in Afghanistan. Time to remove our troops from an un-winnable situation (reminiscent of Vietnam) before even more lives are lost.
Babyface - Warwick, Warwickshire, UK
19 November 2012
This is disgusting, I only hope that vets are involved at every stage to minimise suffering. My view of the MOD has plummeted.
John Jakeman - Stratford-upon-Avon
20 November 2012
One has to ask 'what has a pig done to deserve this fate other than to be 'blessed' with similar anatomical features to humans'?
However, if it is a case of allowing a surgeon to acquire the skills necessary to save lives (not necessarily just combat victims) then surely the end justifies the means? Can models or simulators truly replicate the shock reaction that occurs in a body after severe trauma has occurred? I doubt it. I say so as I recently broke my arm quite spectacularly and ended up with bones sticking out and no-one around to assist me. I am reasonably fit, have seen the results of car & aircraft crashes but after being treated by paramedics, my body went into shock. I didn't want to, but I had no choice in the matter.
I assume the pigs are fully sedated prior to being shot (if not, I would happily shoot the perpetrators) and therefore they never regain consciousness, so do not suffer in any way.
Personally, I am with Hereman - Wirral on this one and yes I would gladly pull the trigger on people like Ian Brady, Ian Huntley, John Thompson, Peter Sutcliffe etc, murderers of the most foul kind and in whom we have no doubt of their guilt. I would also try and save a bit of dosh in these austere times by forgetting the anasthesia first... make it a bit more realistic.
Degradable - UK; It's probably OK to be a pig hugging, tree loving, UKIP supporter....
AW Employee - Yeovil
20 November 2012
Pigs are stunned in a slaughter house, not sedated which some might argue is more traumatic than simply being put to sleep and not waking up, the end result is still either food or destruction of the carcass
This sort of training is always going to upset a minority group or two but lets think of the guys and girls lives these surgeons will save one day.
It could even be the son or daughter of one of these anamial rights group memebers!
Pigs are decent aniamls and as such they are treated with compassion in this training.
RD - UK
20 November 2012
Olivia Hobden -
Find myself in agreement with much of what you say. But I would suggest that this practice be performed in UK.
Why, because it does appear as though we are hiding the practice as David Forster suggests. Also I am content with our animal welfare being very good. I find it a little difficult in that this is Danish....
Danish Bacon anyone.... !
Degradable - UK
20 November 2012
I have always shown support for the MOD and 'our boys' bravely serving our Country. This has destroyed all my faith in the system. If you want something to practice on then use a prisoner serving a life sentence, they can pay their debt to society by doing something useful and the tax payer won't have to fund them for the rest of their existence.
Kathryn - UK
20 November 2012
I don't think I've ever seen "rasher" statements than some of these.
If you're old enough to remember I think this story first surfaced over 20 years ago.
Chris - London
11 January 2013
Leave innocent animals alone. They don't need to die to save me. They are as important on this earth as I am. What gives humans the right to think they are smarter then animals They are not. We are all here for a purpose and i don't mean a religious purpose. We are all equal, animals and humans.Animals feel like we do and suffer like us if hurt by torture.
Val - Perth,Western Australia